AI and Automation in Real Estate Finance with Jon Land

All right. So on this episode I have John Land, who is part of growth, director of sales with Avid Exchange, focused on the category of real estate commercial real estate, multifamily, and we spent some time going over the accounts payable process, how to find value inside an organization, moving from sort of everything is working now, status quo to reimagining work in a frictionless way that creates not only value for employees the experience you want to create for them but profitability to the company, from the CFO's vision to the CEO's vision and, ultimately, to that controller who organizes and maintains this accounting, which is a steering wheel for our organization. As organizations move into the modern era, it stands to say that we need to know what's available so we can build a great, healthy organization. So have a listen to this podcast. I think you're going to find it enjoyable and John does a great job communicating key ideas that can help you find money inside your company.

Have a listen, All right, Jonathan. Well, welcome in. Good to be here, Patrick, Thanks for having me. Yes, and so I know a lot of CEOs CFOs are thinking about productivity. They're thinking about their business differently. I'd love for you to give our viewers and listeners a little bit about what you're working on and maybe a little backstory of who you are and the products that you're bringing to market.

Okay, so my name is John Land. I work at Avid Exchange. So my role at Avid Exchange and what I do is I lead all of our embedded resellers as well as our construction division at Avid Exchange. So I've been at Avid Exchange almost 13 years now, so started when it was much smaller than it is today. We have almost 2,000 employees today. I think I was around employee number 44 in the grand scheme of things with Avid Exchange.

But we do quite a lot in the world of AP automation. That's really what we focus on. We do quite a lot in the world of AP automation. That's really what we focus on. Our goal is to give you time back. I mean, that's what automation really is. We're just trying to remove manual processes and give folks time back that they can use to do other things, to help grow their organization, grow their business and help make more money or whatever they want to do with that time for, for that matter. But yeah, we, we, we automate the AP process getting rid of all the invoices and and all of the paper checks and making all that stuff electronic is really what we, what we do.

Yeah, that's great, and what great growth. What'd you say? 44, 44?

Yeah, I was. We were really small when I started and now we have I think it's somewhere right about 2,000 employees. I mean, it hovers in and around that number pretty consistently for the past couple of years. We've ramped up quite a bit over the history of Avid Exchange. When I started at Avid Exchange we didn't have the payments product, we just did the invoice product.

So basically, when I say the invoice product, that means that vendors would send their invoices directly to us, so they wouldn't send their invoices to our customer, so they wouldn't send it to the property management company, they would send them directly to us. We would capture those invoices. We still do that. I should say we did, we do, we still do this today. We would scan them, we would index them, meaning we'd pull off all that header level detail that's on the invoice. We would get that invoice fed into whatever workflow or approval process you wanted it to flow through and it would flow through that approval process.

Your team would go to code to approve those invoices and then, once they're fully coded and approved, they would get electronically fed right into your accounting system. So it really takes away all of that manual entry and data entry and errors and stuff like that that you would generally see in a paper-based process and then later on the lines, once we really like, hit a real big stride and growth. We rolled out a payments product, really completing the swing of automation in the world of AP, being able to not only capture the invoice but also be able to facilitate the payment. With just a click of the button we can send out payments to the vendors and they can take those payments any way they want them. So if they want them as checks, they want them as electronic payments, whatever they would like, we'll send them the payment method they prefer and they can receive their funds. So it really kind of completes the whole cycle.

Yeah, I mean you mentioned a few things there redundancy, manual effort and sometimes people don't enjoy this kind of work as well but, more importantly, fraud reduction too. I imagine, in terms of this process that's got to be on the rise. Seems like this would be a good solution to combat that.

It is we do. Just intrinsically how the software and how the system is set up reduces your risk of fraud. I mean we have a lot of measures that are in place, obviously, from being able to track and receive the invoices, monitor for duplicate invoices that are that are flowing through, that maybe somebody else that they may be a vendor sent in multiple of the same invoices, so you're not necessarily going to have the opportunity to pay the same invoice twice, three times, whatever. So just because the vendor, for whatever reason, fired over multiple invoices, or if a bogus invoice shows up, the system will pick those kind of things up in the simple opportunity that this isn't a vendor in your system. So you don't have this particular invoice flowing through that you had nothing to do with and people don't really recognize it. They just don't recognize not to approve it.

So we really are really really sure all that kind of stuff up and then, as far as on the payment side, just with how it works and how we operate, it really walls off all of your actual bank accounts to prevent from a lot of the check fraud that you mainly start to see more prevalent as opposed to. There's still opportunities for payment fraud in all different shapes and sizes. We can have a whole long conversation about that. But the check fraud gets drastically reduced, considering we have positive pay on all the payments that go out the door. Plus, all of those payments aren't being sent directly off of your checking accounts, so you don't have the exposure of somebody just intercepting that check, washing that check, changing that check, altering it to be fraudulent.

Yeah, that's interesting. You're spending time with customers, both prospective and your current customers. What are you hearing from them? Where are we as an industry, are you seeing? I mean, obviously more and more people are going towards this process, but we've got some work to do, right still?

Yeah, it's still something that's becoming in my whole life cycle of this. It's kind of funny how this operates. In my whole life cycle of this. It's kind of funny how this operates. There's some reason that will push somebody or push a company to do this, like there'll be some sort of you know. Maybe it's a natural disaster, maybe it's something that happened in the company, maybe somebody stole a bunch of money, who knows what it is.

But in my personal life it was Hurricane Sandy that hit New York City. That was the big like the paradigm shift for me and actually Avid Exchange at that time, because at that time the idea of not receiving the mail and somebody handling your invoices for you was kind of like whoa, this is that's a little much. They weren't, they just weren't there. And all of a sudden Hurricane Sandy hit, washed out all over Manhattan. Half these companies that I was working with were, like some of them, closed. They never reopened because they just washed out of sea literally and it was kind of wild.

But then all of a sudden, putting things in the cloud even though that's not exactly like the latest in technology, now that started to become way more prevalent. People wanted to do that because now all of their local servers that they were, that they were hosting, are now, you know, under four feet of water and don't work. So that pushed a lot of people. But it's just becoming more and more accepted. You know, just in your daily life and your personal life you probably you've probably seen reductions in the amount of mail you receive. You've probably started to pay less invoices with writing checks, probably pay a lot of stuff electronically, so that stuff just starts to bleed over into the business world as well and things are becoming more and more accepted that way. So we've seen steady growth over the past 13 years at Avid, with it becoming more and more accepted that way. So we've seen steady growth over the past, you know, 13 years at Avid, with it becoming more and more widely adopted.

Yeah, I imagine and you know it's interesting, those triggering events we do tend to there's a lot of things to prioritize in the business, you know, and prioritizing something that we may feel like the process is working right, so don't break it, even though it's not productive, not financially viable, redundant, repetitive exposure to risk, all these manual tasks and stuff. What are you seeing after somebody makes that move the aha moments from going from an old process to this more secure and more productive one.

By and large we get the response of why did we not do this sooner? I loved it. My roles have changed over the years that I've exchanged, but when I was a sales rep it was why did you not make us do this sooner? I was trying.

I'm glad you finally did it, but it's I think that there's a lot more of a I don't know if it's fear, but there's a lot more hesitation because folks associate something like AP automation with a big upheaval in their process and a big like. They almost liken it to a core system conversion, like changing from one property management system to another. And it's not even close. But they kind of feel that way because they've been almost conditioned with that, because everything always takes longer and harder than they ever thought it was going to be. But once we can implement this and you know, and for all intents purposes a very short amount of time I mean 45, 60 days at the most to get everything up and running, everybody trained, everything's working like it should, it doesn't take very long to do that and it's not an and even though that is, you know, that's not like an instant flip of the switch.

It's not a lot of lift on our customers' part. We're doing a lot of this backend work where we're putting together the workflows like they want them. We're getting everything set up. We're importing their chart of accounts, their vendor table, all of those things. We're working on putting all that stuff together for them and building their portals out and getting all their users set up. So it's a lot of work that we're doing. But once it gets set up, it's just starts to kind of it'll just grow itself and you'll just. It's very you know. Once you understand how it works, it's very user friendly on being able to like move forward. It's not a hard process. It's something easy to adapt to. You don't have to send your invoices to us, mr and Mrs Vendor. You just send them to this address or you email them to this address and then we take care of the rest. So it's not a huge lift.

And if someone's not building this technology or experiencing it, it's hard for them to envision a new way, right? I mean, are you finding that you're almost consulting on the sales side of it? Where? Tell us about your current process? How does that work? And then coming up with roadmaps from is it?

unique to every company, or is it pretty standardized? So the reason, what will push them, can be unique, but as far as what we're doing for everyone and I don't want this to come across as, like you know, insulting or anything like that it's generally the same. You know there's not. I mean, yes, some companies have different little idiosyncrasies than others in their particular approval processes and in their workflows, and we can accommodate for those things. This isn't something that's just, you know, insurmountable, that we can't figure out. The system is highly configurable and you can construct it any way you'd really like. So having that, you know, having that advantage on our side definitely helps. But it's kind of going back to a point you made earlier our biggest competitor is status quo and that's the one that really it's. Well, this isn't broken. So why are we fixing it? And you're you know what. You're right. It isn't technically broken, but you can.

You can make a simple change and become way more efficient at what you're doing and get a lot of time back. I mean, you can. You're literally talking about getting 60% of the minimum of your time back that you're currently spending on doing a process and making it. You know better, but that's the part that, like you've you're that's, that's kind of the hardest part You've. You're working in a situation where somebody has been doing it this one way literally their whole life and you come in and you're saying no, or they take it as no, you're doing it wrong. And I wouldn't say that we're telling them they're doing it wrong. We're just trying to give them an opportunity to help yourself. And you can. You can change, make this change, and it's going to make drastic improvements in your, in your, in your actual daily life, in your personal life. You're going to receive some benefits of this not having to. You know you're not have you're.

Yeah, I know that.

You know we as leaders have moved through different platforms, from PC to internet to cloud and mobile, and you know we're just constantly in this state of change and those leaders that can navigate those waters and provide, you know, direction and profitability to a company during all those periods make the business more valuable.

And so you know it's one of the reasons that we love partnering with you guys is because we know like, hey, this is, companies are looking for better ways to make their company better and profitable, so there's a financial piece to this. Then there's an experience, right, and then there's the fiduciary around, like there's technology that exists that can de-risk the organization. It stands to say me as a leader should pay attention, get on a call with you, figure out like what do I need to know about this? Who else has done this? How did that go? What kind of impact can this make and bring this into my organization, because our assumptions may not be true about how much time it takes, what that effort is, but at the end of the day, there's some investor there saying I'm counting on you to make this business better. Use the tools that are available to us.

Yeah, and that's what our job really is. We're trying to give you the opportunity to come in, get comfortable with what we're going to do, make sure that we can, you know, establish and build out what you're trying to solve. You know you're what might be bringing you or your trigger might be different than the next guy, but you know we want to make sure that we're, that you're comfortable with with this and how this is going to work, and give you that education so you can make the right decision on what all you need this to do and what you really should see results from it by yeah, and you guys have a great brand, by the way.

I see your work. You guys show up in so many educational-based ways to provide value. I think you guys have your own podcast. Was it the Net30 podcast, am I right?

Yeah, we have a couple. We've started rolling those out a little more consistently as of late yes, yeah.

Well, what a great name, right? Net30, I mean it kind of plays off the payment timelines that we all expect, right, I will say what are you hearing from CFOs? I mean, business leaders obviously are looking for more ways to make their business better. Cfos, the finance teams, clearly they must be getting excited about the work you guys are doing. Talk me through. What are the things you're seeing after people are engaging?

So after they're engaging with us and they really get through that implementation time frame and they've rolled the product out, they really start to experience the true power and the true ability of the actual software and the service. There's a lot about Avid Exchange that's not just software driven and that's one of the things that I believe gives them the most impact. There's a lot going on at Avid, you know. I mentioned we talked a little bit earlier about the number of employees at Avid Exchange and you know we have roughly 2000 employees. We don't necessarily need 2000 folks to run a software company, but those people got to do something. The simple fact of, like, our payments department has right at 500 employees in it that do that, you know, help manage and facilitate and get those payments through to the vendors, you know there's. So there's a lot of work that goes on with this. So it's not a situation that they just, you know, hit the button and this payment goes out into who knows where and hopefully it finds its way to whoever we're paying. You know we're going to make sure that it's going to get there. We're going to call them, we're going to follow up with it, because there's work that has to be done. That's more than what, at this stage in the game, the software can actually provide in reaching out and contacting a supplier for a particular invoice that's getting paid.

But I think one of the things that they come back to us with is just kind of the amount of time that they're saving, the amount of opportunity that they're being able to now roll out to their team, to, you know, give them opportunities to do other things, the other projects they can start working on, and just the like you hear this all the time where you know we had to do this particular report or that particular report like an accrual or something along those lines, and that used to take us, you know, a week, and now it takes us like 15 minutes, you know, to make sure that we've got the report set up like we want it and just boom, click, run and it's over with.

And you know that's a lot of time to be saving somebody on just one little example but we have multiple examples of that and just giving them the opportunity to access and, you know, like in the CFO level, giving them the visibility to know what's going on with their funds at any given moment. You can see what's going on at any time. You don't necessarily have to, you know, run down to some file room and pull together a report by pulling all the files and making copies and passing this on which that stuff still happens to this day, which a small part of me dies every time I hear somebody tell me a story like that. But it just gives them a lot more ease of use and feasibility to run their business and manage their money.

Yeah, Talk a little bit about the ideal customer. Who's this for? Is there a certain market customer that's best suited to start, or is it all across enterprise as well?

So we really I mean, that's's a great question, to be honest with you, because it well, I'll give you two. I'll try to answer this question as best I can, because we really can help anyone. Okay, and I know you don't want to get that answer because that's like well, okay, that's really awful broad strokes well, I mean.

What that says is if you have 300 units, it still works right. If you have 300,000 units?

yeah, so and we run into those exact scenarios. We work with some of the largest property managers in the world and we work with some of the smallest property managers in the world. It really doesn't matter. The system is completely scalable and it can be used for multiple I mean, any size company can really really use it and benefit it. You can have the small company, the lean and mean guy that's looking to save money, he's looking to try, and you know, streamline everything. He can grow his business without having to add headcount. You know we were set up to work with those folks, as well as the one that has an AP team of 35 people in there that all of a sudden, they just look around and they're like we could probably use 35 people to do something else and what we can help them with being able to streamline and scale their own business.

So it's really it's our average customer, though, and we look at the world through invoices and payments, which is kind of a hard translation for folks that don't dabble in that on a regular basis to know. But we'll ask people how many payments do you make a month? And you'll be shocked how many people don't have a clue, but generally, what we see is our average customer will be somewhere in the neighborhood of 750 to 1500 monthly payments. Now that takes into consideration that that pulls out the outliers, the guys that are doing 50,000, 100,000, and you know, pulls out the outliers that the guys are doing 10. But you know, generally day in day out, that's who we see the most of. But that doesn't mean that we can't help the guy that's doing 100 or that we can't help the guy that's doing 15,000, because we absolutely can. But that's just generally what we see.

What is the? And maybe you don't know this off the top of your head, but what is the amount of time for one like, what do people spend on one invoice? Is that research out there?

Yeah, so it depends on how big the organization is as to how much time they spend on it. But generally an invoice they're going to spend upwards of, on a payment they spend on an average of seven minutes of payment and then on an invoice they could spend anywhere between 12 to 20 minutes on average and you take into consideration everybody that's got to touch it and look at it and go through, and you take into consideration everybody that's, you know, got to touch it and look at it and go through it and you just multiply that over. If you're doing a thousand, I mean that's you're talking about a lot of time that's getting spent just looking at an invoice where you can reduce that remarkably with automating this process, so and that. And you can also translate that because we can do full ROI analysis for customers if they want to, so they can understand, like, really what's this going to be worth to you to do it? You know how much you're going to save just in hard costs alone.

You know you think about the hard costs on the payment side of things.

You've got stamps, you've got microtoner, you've got envelopes, you've got check stock.

You know how much money you're going to save just not having to do that again, just not having to worry about buying that near as much, if at all, and being able to automate that process.

And then the soft cost piece of it with what you're paying folks to do and you're paying the folks to put it together and you know, to put this, just to mail it out and all the folks on capturing the invoices and all that time that it takes them to get those invoices through and entered into the system and be able to be facilitated to be paid. So we could actually give you like a number as to what that's going to be and so you can weigh that against, like what this is going to cost. And you know we've talked about payments. There's also the opportunity for rebates to be involved. We do have a lot of customers that take on receiving rebates in their deal with Avid Exchange and that can outweigh a lot of the costs and sometimes it can outweigh all of it, depending on how many payments they process and how much rebate we're able to collect for folks.

Yes, and the math seems simple with that analysis, right. The question then becomes how do you get out in front of it? So you're not like the hurricane you mentioned, you're reacting, because I would imagine doing this in a state of planning is much more enjoyable than in a state of need, where you're reacting to a problem you know and you've been told to do this, that type of thing. Which leads me to my question of who are you talking to inside the organization to bring this in. Is it CFO? Like who do you want to spend time with inside the organization? Like who do you want to spend time with inside the organization?

So generally, we like the controller and this is just my opinion of it. You could probably ask different people at Avid Exchange. But the controller to me is that like ideal person, because they kind of sit right there, they're involved with everything. They're passing reports up to the CFO, but they're also dealing with all the accountants and the AP staff, so they can see both sides of the fence and they can understand and appreciate the value that you're going want to talk to.

But the roles can be vast in different organizations and you know, obviously you know further off the food chain is generally going to be the one that signs off on doing something like this. So you know, obviously, getting buy-in from the CFO and their leadership, the leadership of the organization is ideal. But you know we talk to, you know AP managers we talk to, you know controllers, cfos. You know we talk to a lot of different roles, but I would say that our ideal customer we generally like to have the controller involved. That's a really good person to have a lot of perspective on the value we can bring.

Yeah, I mean, to your point, the leadership team, if that be, cfo, CEO, whatever that is, board, I mean they're looking for productivity, experience, value creation in the business. Clearly, the controller is organized to do all of those things and it impacts their world so much. Right, Like I imagine they're your best champions in so many ways. But sometimes the CEOs and a lot of the leaders that listen to the podcast aren't doing that work right. So it's like do you want to be a status quo organization? Do you want to kind of stay where you are, leave some money on the table, you know, or do you want to create some experience, better experiences for employees, create some profitability and modernize the business? I think that's kind of the way I would be thinking about it if I'm a CEO today.

Yeah, you don't want to be in a scenario where we run into this actually a lot, where we run into scenarios where the organization is going through a change ie people are leaving or growing or whatever the case is, and they don't have like a established, a true established process which you can, which you can make an Avid exchange, and it can be an established electronic process that you know. This is how the invoices are going to flow, this is how the you know this is, this is what happens. So you could, if somebody left and you brought somebody else in. This is how it works.

Where you we have a lot of scenarios where you got a lot of this like colloquial knowledge that when somebody retires or leaves the organization, along goes all that knowledge too, and they have to go. They get kind of caught on their heels trying to figure out well, how did we do this in the past? You know what is, you know there's no established process for this. What do we? What do we do now? And you know that's one of the things where, kind of to your point, patrick, getting out in front of it will help, you know, shore up those kind of conversations down the road.

Yes, and even with talent shortages, I would imagine that people kind of see the writing on the wall in many ways, with even AI around. Like you know, supporting organizations like this, like companies, are not expanding. They're relying on, like relationships that you've built to get the job done in a more technically advanced way. So I would imagine it's also hard to find more and more staff as well, and this provides, I think I'm assuming some relief to that as well.

It does, it definitely takes a lot of the pressure off. I mean, you still need people in there to make decisions. I mean the software is not a decision-making piece. It's just going to give you the opportunity to take all that work off your plate and you're just, you know, as far as coding the invoices and all that kind of stuff, you're just checking to make sure this is right, you're checking to make sure you want to approve it and you want to pay this thing, and so it's not, it's not making the decisions for you, but you still need those kind of decision-making folks in there to deal with that. But yeah, outside of that, it definitely will take the pressure off of you needing large staffs of folks to handle your day-to-day business.

And I think that's another comfort level is you're still in charge of approvals and authority over the governance of the organization. Nothing really changes, from what I understand with that. You're just kind of getting that middle piece redundant process out and systematizing it in so many ways.

Yep, we get asked that a lot. I don't want things to just go out the door automatically. Well, good thing they don't, so you're in luck. No, nothing comes through and gets automatically approved. Nothing gets automatically approved. Nothing gets automatically paid. So there's no way for anything to get set up to where something comes in and goes out the door and no one touched it. So you're still going to have to have people that are going to say, yes, we did this, yes, we want to pay it.

Yeah, and so, John, what are the questions people are asking you if they haven't been through this process yet, right?

So and what questions should we be asking as far as getting looking into doing something like this, I think you just it's a little bit of like kind of looking back at the company that you're with and kind of going through a little bit of a checklist, you know, do we, are we looking to grow? Are we? If we're looking to grow, then this is an opportunity for us to scale our business and be able to expand without having to add any back office staff. You know I hate to do it kind of the fear mongering thing, but have we experienced fraud? Do we experience issues with payments? Do we experience issues with invoices coming in, or do we have folks that are looking to leave? Are we in some level of a transition at our company?

You know, is ownership changing over? A lot of times you have children that are taking over companies for their parents that built the company. So there's a whole host of things that can take place. That would be really good opportunities. Are we looking to move offices? That's one that I think is an interesting one that I used to face years ago and they're like we want to hold off, we're moving offices and my response would be well, this is the perfect time because you're moving offices. You're going to tell every one of your vendors you're changing the address they're going to send this invoice to. Why not just tell them you're changing the address to Avid Exchange and then not have to tell them again, and then it's done, and then you can move offices all you want. So if there's any sort of like change, anything going on or you're just sick and tired of dealing with paper, we would love to talk to you.

Yeah, that's great. So let's talk about that. How do people get in touch with you? Where can they follow you and learn more about what this product is?

Yeah, so I mean you can reach out to Avid Exchange. I mean obviously avidexchangecom. You can obviously reach out to me. I mean I'm on LinkedIn. My name's John Land, l-a-n-d. Been working at Avid for a while. Email address is simple J-L-A-N-D at avidexchangecom. But, yeah, you can reach out to Avid Exchange obviously through our website. If you're kind of catching this, you can reach out to me.

We're at a lot of different trade shows so we will take any sort of contact that you can find. But, yeah, that's probably the simplest way Go to the website and then you just request more information and we have teams of folks that will reach out to you. You know, kind of find out a little bit more about you. You're going to have a conversation with somebody in our business development department, understanding you know what you're after, what you're looking for, and then they'll set you up with being able to speak with the. You know, because we, you know we work with a lot of different verticals at Avid Exchange.

We got right at 10,000 customers. So you know there's a lot of different things going on. We have different relationships with different accounting systems. Some of them we're embedded in, some of them we're not. But they'll route you to the correct person and they'll be able to take care of you and kind of get you in the process to see if this is a solution that would work for you kind of get you in the process to see if this is a solution that would work for you.

Yeah, that's great. Well, I think we did a great job covering some of the things that you're innovating in our space. Is there anything that we missed? Number one. Number two is tell us just final thoughts, anything you want to leave our listeners with.

I don't know that we missed terribly much. Obviously, avid Exchange is a growing business. I mean we've got a lot going on. We're constantly developing things. We're working on a lot of stuff.

You mentioned AI. We do a lot with that. That's something that's really ramping up pretty heavily. In fact, Avid Exchange probably is one of the companies that's got the most benefit from artificial intelligence, and the fact that we have millions and millions of invoices that come through Avid Exchange each and every day and being able to capture that information even more accurately than we do today would definitely be beneficial to us, because there's a lot of systems in place that we have to make sure that we hold a really high regard to our accuracy. But I mean, as far as anything else, without going into specific systems and stuff like that, we're always working to grow our network and we would definitely want to hear from everybody that we can, so we can do what we can to partner with as many folks in the multifamily and real estate industries, for that matter, that we can, and we've done a lot with our integrations over the years.

Uh, I mean just in my time at avid exchange. I mean it's it's like a quantum leap from when we started. So there's a, there's a lot, especially the embedded solutions are becoming really popular. So we're and when I say that that means that, like when you, if you used, let's's say you know RealPage, that the Avid's, the payments piece, is built into RealPage, meaning you don't leave RealPage, it's in RealPage. So when you select payments, you can send them right through RealPage, vendor pay and that's powered by Avid Exchange. So we're the ones that are facilitating the payments, we're basically the engine behind it. But you don't ever have to leave engine behind it, but you don't ever have to leave. So there's not, it's not going to come across as some kind of bolt on system or you know. You know it's going to be integrated fully into your actual, into your actual experience. So that's that's probably one of the most popular things that we have. That's going on with with our, with our folks.

but Wonderful, wonderful, no, I'm really glad you shared that because I think people, um, you know, they want to know how this experience and it's probably best to reach out and get in touch with your team, maybe do a demo, see how this stuff works from a visual and and ask the questions. I'm sure it's unique to every customer and, uh, you know, hopefully this podcast has been helpful and would encourage people to take that first step, regardless of what the priority is today, it doesn't cost money to reach out and get in touch with somebody that can potentially help transform an organization. So it's been great sharing the time. We'll be following your success and appreciate you showing up and creating the value for our listeners. Thank you, john.

Thank you, patrick, appreciate it.

Yeah, all right. Well, we'll see you guys in the next one. Make sure you give them a follow and enjoy it. Go after it. We'll see you next one.

Yeah, thanks.