The Hidden Agenda Behind Amazon’s Push to Bring Workers Back

[00:00:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Dell, Amazon, Tesla, Kellogg, all are calling people back to the office.

[00:00:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Apple Disney Tesla, just a nail for you.

[00:00:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and is this the question is is this a productivity issue or is there an issue beyond that?

[00:00:17] [SPEAKER_01]: That's both for sure both, right?

[00:00:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, there's a great article that just came out like you guys should click on it.

[00:00:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Jerry, you want to pull that up just ahead of line.

[00:00:27] [SPEAKER_01]: It's 79% of CEOs say remote work will be dead in three years.

[00:00:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, this is KPNG.

[00:00:33] [SPEAKER_01]: If you guys want to go look at the article, this just came out.

[00:00:38] [SPEAKER_01]: It's pretty eye-opening, right?

[00:00:40] [SPEAKER_01]: It's essentially saying like if you guys think about it,

[00:00:44] [SPEAKER_01]: it's hard to maintain a company culture number one.

[00:00:49] [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, if you're an employer, right?

[00:00:51] [SPEAKER_01]: It's hard to do that when everything's remote.

[00:00:53] [SPEAKER_01]: And then the other thing is inflation is hitting the employers.

[00:00:58] [SPEAKER_01]: You guys like it hits the consumer first and employees first.

[00:01:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Now it's hitting the employers.

[00:01:05] [SPEAKER_01]: So, this is even buried in this article.

[00:01:08] [SPEAKER_01]: I would encourage you.

[00:01:09] [SPEAKER_01]: We'll put a link on for you guys to go check it out later.

[00:01:13] [SPEAKER_01]: It basically says that the employers are now withholding bonuses and performance and stuff like that

[00:01:22] [SPEAKER_01]: for the people that are actually resisting this, right?

[00:01:27] [SPEAKER_01]: The RTO they're calling it, returning to the office.

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_01]: And so it's a great way to clean house.

[00:01:33] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a great way and that's what the article suggests.

[00:01:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, the tech companies really go into why they're letting people go.

[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_00]: So, it's kind of that I think most CEOs do want people back in the office because of productivity

[00:01:45] [SPEAKER_00]: because of a lot of those kind of things.

[00:01:46] [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, the other reason is going to be they need to let people go and what better way

[00:01:54] [SPEAKER_00]: to do it versus having to pay a severance and having to pay all that than having people resign

[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_00]: because they don't want to go back to the office full time.

[00:02:02] [SPEAKER_01]: The optics are good if you're an employer.

[00:02:05] [SPEAKER_01]: The optics are good, right?

[00:02:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Instead of just saying we're going to cut 10,000 or 20,000 people.

[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Some of these big companies have headlines like that.

[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_01]: All they got to do is just say return to the office.

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, and that's going to give you some attrition just naturally, right?

[00:02:20] [SPEAKER_00]: So some people, you know, some people move to Wisconsin, some people, you know, don't,

[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, they don't want to pay for childcare.

[00:02:27] [SPEAKER_00]: So there's things that are going to make people then just resign.

[00:02:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And then if they resign there's no severance, there's no co-bra, there's no all these things that...

[00:02:37] [SPEAKER_01]: If I lived, if I was working at San Francisco, I would go,

[00:02:40] [SPEAKER_01]: if you, there's no way I moved back to San Francisco.

[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_01]: There's no way it's, you know, as a result.

[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_01]: So you're going to see all kinds of stuff going on.

[00:02:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Well then the other reason too is stock pricing, right?

[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_00]: So if you have a lot of layoffs, you know, layoffs mean that your product isn't needed

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_00]: or your mismanaging your company.

[00:03:02] [SPEAKER_00]: So they don't look good for the CEO and they don't look good for the stock price.

[00:03:06] [SPEAKER_00]: So what better way to have less layoffs or less people lay off than

[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_00]: have some people just resign on their own.

[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Things are shifting from the employee to the employer.

[00:03:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Here's the other thing guys.

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_01]: This, as the article points out, this is a great opportunity.

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_01]: If you guys are in some kind of startup or tech and you want to meet,

[00:03:28] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah, there's some incredible people that are going to be hitting the market.

[00:03:30] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean let's just face it.

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_01]: That's a fact that, and it's clear in here that a lot of these tech companies

[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_01]: are even willing to walk away from some really, really good folks that are remote.

[00:03:42] [SPEAKER_01]: And if you're crushing it for somebody and you're like,

[00:03:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I can get a job anywhere, that's really, really good for other companies.

[00:03:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Right?

[00:03:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Because you're also going to have, you know, a lot of times we've kind of focus on,

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, the numbers but don't forget, this is going to be a disruption.

[00:04:01] [SPEAKER_01]: This will be a incredible moment as it,

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_01]: if you're trying to build a company, you're trying to build a team,

[00:04:08] [SPEAKER_01]: trying to scale.

[00:04:09] [SPEAKER_01]: There's going to be some really, really good folks on the market as a result of this.

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think this is going to, yeah, it's going to be a slow wave over the next couple of years.

[00:04:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think that the issue is that, you know,

[00:04:22] [SPEAKER_00]: the media really hyped this remote work and Eli asked a good question.

[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_00]: He said, is there a market for remote work?

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, I think certain jobs that were always remote will stay remote.

[00:04:31] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, a lot of your certain kinds of tech workers were remote, you know,

[00:04:36] [SPEAKER_00]: so kind of sales people were remote.

[00:04:38] [SPEAKER_01]: I know people outsourcing their accounting and their legal right now completely to India.

[00:04:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's the thing, if you're going to do remote work,

[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_00]: why would you do it in the US when these people can do it for a lot cheaper in other countries?

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, we have Hamaang who works for us is from India.

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_01]: We've actually never met him. He's phenomenal, right?

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he does all of our websites, too.

[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like so. So yes, many things can be done remotely.

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_01]: He dials in, we have him on zooms.

[00:05:06] [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, obviously it's a different time.

[00:05:08] [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't have to be India, but the point is, yes, there's a lot of things that I think

[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_01]: you're going to start to see especially with AI that can be done very differently

[00:05:18] [SPEAKER_01]: in the next couple of years.

[00:05:19] [SPEAKER_00]: But I do think overall, you know, you're going to have these big corporate jobs and even

[00:05:23] [SPEAKER_00]: small businesses are going to have you work in office.

[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And Jerry, can you pull that chart where they were talking about corporate efficiency?

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_00]: So this is how much corporate our operational efficiency has come up in these corporate

[00:05:37] [SPEAKER_00]: calls every single year.

[00:05:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And as you can see, there's a big spike, you know, right about 2022 when people were starting

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_00]: to talk about me becoming back to the office and then 2023 and now in 2024.

[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_00]: So operational efficiency is getting brought up a lot.

[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_00]: So what does that mean?

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_00]: That means that CEOs are saying, are we operationally efficient?

[00:05:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Do we need all of these people?

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Are they how effective are they at home?

[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_00]: If we brought people back in the office, is there fat we can trim?

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Because their profits are down, right?

[00:06:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Because the economy is slowing.

[00:06:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And also if people are like kind of the same, people are getting easier to hire.

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_00]: We're getting so many applications now.

[00:06:15] [SPEAKER_00]: So before, you know, the employer needed to make the employee happy because they didn't have

[00:06:22] [SPEAKER_00]: anyone to have a job.

[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_00]: But now there's so many great employees on the market.

[00:06:26] [SPEAKER_00]: People don't necessarily care if you don't want to come back to the office.

[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Leave.

[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_01]: So let's pull that Fred Charo quick, Jerry.

[00:06:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Because I think this is important to take a look at.

[00:06:37] [SPEAKER_01]: So this is the unemployment rate as of basically today.

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_01]: So as you guys probably know, unemployment is hovering in the low fours.

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_01]: No, I think it's 4243-ish and I think the numbers are actually coming out this week.

[00:06:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe next, I could be wrong there.

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_01]: But what's really important to understand is it does it's kind of subtle.

[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_01]: But but in 2023 the unemployment rate was 3.4 in January till about June.

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_01]: To only went up to 3.5.

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_01]: So I don't play with it was really pretty low in 23.

[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_01]: This is after the big spike, of course, which was the pandemic.

[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_01]: So why is this important?

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_01]: I'll tell you why.

[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_01]: That little little uptick at the very far right that you guys might see that's 4.3%.

[00:07:28] [SPEAKER_01]: That represents 1%.

[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, it doesn't really look like much on this chart now does it.

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_01]: But if you guys do the math, we have 163 million people that could,

[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_01]: they're employed.

[00:07:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And this isn't perfect math, but if you Google that, you'll see that's the number 163 million.

[00:07:53] [SPEAKER_01]: 10% of that is 16.3 million.

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_01]: 1% which is this is 1.63 million.

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_01]: So this little 1% from 23 to 24 is over 1.5 million people.

[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_01]: That is a lot.

[00:08:11] [SPEAKER_01]: That's actually what this is.

[00:08:15] [SPEAKER_01]: So at the same time that they're doing return to the office,

[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_01]: and the same time the Fed is already said that even 4.3 might be a little bit low,

[00:08:30] [SPEAKER_01]: this unemployment rate could actually go up even more.

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_01]: So this could not be at a worse time for employees.

[00:08:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And when they went, so obviously all of us think we're irreplaceable.

[00:08:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Like every single person.

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm telling you there's a million or more people from one year on the market.

[00:08:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And we're seeing that in our applications.

[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_01]: We're seeing that in the people applying for jobs.

[00:08:56] [SPEAKER_01]: And this could push it even further.

[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_01]: That's got to the point.

[00:09:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and let's go into the real problem.

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_00]: But before we do that, I'm kind of an eye are relaunching our podcast.

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_00]: It is now called the Ken Macal Roy show.

[00:09:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And we're going to be discussing.

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_01]: We wrestled over that one by the way.

[00:09:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Right? The Ken Macal Roy show.

[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_00]: But we're going to be discussing things that are going on at MC a little bit

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_00]: deeper of a dive into the company and also some higher level, you know,

[00:09:25] [SPEAKER_00]: real estate deals.

[00:09:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I do.

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_01]: You guys asked for this.

[00:09:28] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we went out and thank you guys.

[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_01]: The ones that told us what you wanted.

[00:09:34] [SPEAKER_01]: What you really want is what am I working on?

[00:09:36] [SPEAKER_01]: What's the company working on?

[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, what are we looking from the market and the deals?

[00:09:40] [SPEAKER_01]: So we're going to really go into that in a fair amount of detail.

[00:09:45] [SPEAKER_01]: So I appreciate your guys' support so far. Thank you.

[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_00]: So the real issue to get back to what we were talking about

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_00]: is that the media and employees took, you know, remote work.

[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, the media was saying remote works the new way.

[00:10:02] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, offices are dead.

[00:10:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Nobody's going back in 2020.

[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_00]: And everyone kind of ran with that.

[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Because it's true for all the reporters.

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. And they kind of ran with that.

[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_00]: But what we're seeing now is even tech companies that were even a little bit remote

[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_00]: before the pandemic bringing everybody back in.

[00:10:18] [SPEAKER_00]: So and as Ken said, you know, 79% of CEOs say remote work

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_00]: is going to be dead in three years.

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And I actually do believe that because there's not, you know,

[00:10:28] [SPEAKER_00]: you don't really know how to run a team if nobody is in the office.

[00:10:33] [SPEAKER_01]: I will tell you guys, we just did a credible

[00:10:36] [SPEAKER_01]: everybody took the same day off.

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_01]: We do what's called a volunteer day for the whole company.

[00:10:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And we shut the doors for all the corporate offices.

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_01]: We shut the doors for every property.

[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Every single person no matter what they're doing.

[00:10:52] [SPEAKER_01]: We take that day off.

[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And this year, we all went to a food bank all over the country.

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_01]: It was awesome, right?

[00:10:59] [SPEAKER_01]: And it was like, ah, it was a highlight for me for last month and for a lot of people.

[00:11:06] [SPEAKER_01]: It's just great because it's different.

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Everyone's having fun. Everyone's getting paid.

[00:11:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, we packed food boxes basically all day.

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, the reason I bring that up is because

[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_01]: it just pulls that culture together.

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_01]: It's the, you know, y'all meet there.

[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_01]: And in the morning, you're working together packing boxes.

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_01]: There's breaks where you're all meeting and talking.

[00:11:28] [SPEAKER_01]: There's lunch.

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And then a lot of people went to happy hour afterwards.

[00:11:32] [SPEAKER_01]: And this is where culture's built.

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_01]: It's all on those side little things.

[00:11:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And the leadership of course has to be there for all that.

[00:11:39] [SPEAKER_01]: We just did something similar at Limitless,

[00:11:41] [SPEAKER_01]: where we had 14 of our team members all go to Limitless this year.

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And I was dead tired.

[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_01]: So I didn't go to this, but there was a happy hour after

[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_01]: afterwards after the long day of work in there.

[00:11:56] [SPEAKER_01]: And Charlie said, you know, that was some of the best employee bonding ever.

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Wherever it is just hanging out, having dinner and having a few cocktails.

[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_01]: That's what's missing with remote work.

[00:12:07] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we had incredible dinner up in,

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_01]: like, orchican, you know, our property.

[00:12:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And we had this phenomenal conversation about,

[00:12:15] [SPEAKER_01]: and it was called the culture index.

[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And we actually all took our culture index right there.

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_01]: But it was fun because we all took it to five or ten minutes

[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_01]: that were all discussed, we're all laughing.

[00:12:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And afterwards it was kind of the highlight of the few days.

[00:12:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And it was all in person.

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's the point.

[00:12:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:12:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of these employees too, you know,

[00:12:35] [SPEAKER_00]: they're not even able to come back to the office.

[00:12:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's why towns like Cordilaine were able to boom.

[00:12:42] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you had said, like small towns like Cordilaine were booming.

[00:12:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Things like that.

[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_00]: That's because people were assuming that remote work was permanent

[00:12:48] [SPEAKER_00]: and they moved to these small towns.

[00:12:51] [SPEAKER_01]: This is also going to be good for commercial real estate.

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, look at that.

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_01]: How long have you gone in finding a Cordilaine?

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_01]: That's a good one.

[00:12:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:12:58] [SPEAKER_01]: It's, by the way, you guys meet up.

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_01]: We've been going there for 15 years.

[00:13:03] [SPEAKER_01]: So this is a town that I've seen boomers and busts.

[00:13:06] [SPEAKER_01]: And we sold our house.

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, look at that.

[00:13:09] [SPEAKER_01]: That's a top sale on the left.

[00:13:11] [SPEAKER_01]: That's the Cordilaine, Marina.

[00:13:13] [SPEAKER_01]: It's beautiful.

[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. So basically, and we know, so anybody that cares, you know,

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_00]: and Ken's trying to kind of sugarcoat it too with, you know,

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_00]: it's culture and everything else.

[00:13:24] [SPEAKER_00]: But people are not as productive at home.

[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what's coming up in these meetings.

[00:13:30] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, some of you may be, I'm not saying everybody.

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_00]: But as the general whole, most people aren't as productive as home.

[00:13:36] [SPEAKER_00]: And they're not able to be managed unless you have a role that's very specific

[00:13:40] [SPEAKER_00]: on if you're doing your job or not.

[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Like some accounting roles, some sales roles are easier to me.

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's the biggest advantage.

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I'd work from home basis than other roles are.

[00:13:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I remember you told me a story that one of your friends, I will say,

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_01]: who was actually there.

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_01]: They were in Mexico or something.

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Vegas and, and they're like, oh, don't worry.

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Like my boss never calls and then they got a call.

[00:14:02] [SPEAKER_01]: They'd run up there.

[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they'd run up there.

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_00]: They'd run up there.

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they'd run up there.

[00:14:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they'd run up there.

[00:14:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we were all down there.

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_01]: So we all don't need stories, guys.

[00:14:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Like they're everywhere.

[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, here's the negative, the downside for them,

[00:14:16] [SPEAKER_01]: boy, there are people that are super productive from home like your brother.

[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Like that guy's a machine.

[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's like he gets up.

[00:14:25] [SPEAKER_01]: 5 AM, he's on this and he works all day hard.

[00:14:28] [SPEAKER_01]: He's super disciplined.

[00:14:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And he's raising a family and all that kind of stuff.

[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_01]: There are people where this is actually going to be a negative four.

[00:14:36] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, because there are, there are people that really do it.

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_01]: But there are also people that don't do a good job at all.

[00:14:44] [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, they're home raising their family.

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_01]: They, they, they, they don't, they don't have to spend for the child care and all those kinds of things.

[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_01]: So that's all the negative side of this.

[00:14:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I also think, you know, there are exceptions for people, you know, don't.

[00:14:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you can't tell me Amazon doesn't have any exceptions to their right.

[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I know some things.

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_01]: They said publicly.

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_00]: As a general rule, correct.

[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_01]: So, these also return my text.

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_00]: So what can an employee do for those of you listening that are employees?

[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, for one thing is you have to understand the job market is not what it was.

[00:15:20] [SPEAKER_00]: So if your office is calling you back into work, the first thing you should really do before you quit would be to really look at

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_00]: the job market.

[00:15:29] [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, you know, the job market is not working from home or the remote opportunities right now because there's really hardly any if you jump on indeed or anything like that.

[00:15:37] [SPEAKER_00]: There's very few jobs that are letting you work remote.

[00:15:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And also you got to be careful if you do make that move.

[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_01]: How soon, you know, well, that's you drop, right?

[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Like you, you know, just because you make a lateral move somewhere, you know, the decisions are coming from

[00:15:53] [SPEAKER_01]: typically the CEOs or the ownership of the company.

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_01]: So before you make a move, make sure that you really understand where you're heading and because that could change also.

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:16:06] [SPEAKER_00]: And then the second thing is if you want to stay with your company and you want to be one of those exceptions,

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think there's anything wrong going up to your boss and explaining to them that you are productive at home.

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_00]: If you can be an exception and how you can prove, if you don't have a role that's easy to prove,

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_00]: how you can prove that you are productive at home.

[00:16:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Because that's what the CEO typically is looking for is like I can't tell who's productive and who's not productive.

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to just have bring everyone back to the office, but if you can somehow prove that you are productive and a way to measure that,

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_00]: then he here see my give you the exception.

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's a really good point.

[00:16:39] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a this isn't open dialogue right?

[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_01]: The problem as an employer is you make an exception for one.

[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_01]: You got to make an exception for another.

[00:16:47] [SPEAKER_01]: So you do have to be consistent as an employer from person to person,

[00:16:54] [SPEAKER_01]: especially today with all the craziness going on with lawsuits and stuff.

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_01]: So that's the problem with that right?

[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_01]: So you know, it can't be a judgment call right?

[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_01]: It has to be black and white exactly.

[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_00]: So those that is what's going on in the economy today.

[00:17:14] [SPEAKER_00]: So we will see you guys next week.

[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks guys.

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.