The Dark Side of Real Estate: Scams That Are RUINING People

Welcome to the Real Estate Strategies podcast. Let's get right into this episode. Real estate scams are costing investors, tenants, and every day people millions of dollars, and we're going to help you try and avoid them. Yeah, we got to be careful here, guys. There's a lot of stuff going on online, social media, the internet. You got to be very very careful. Our office personally is under attack almost daily because we get emails from financial institutions asking for passwords and stuff like that. So today we're going to talk about all that. Yeah, and before we go into specifically the scams that we're seeing, there are certain things that should be a red flag to you. So you know, if you were a tenant and you're trying to rent something or you're trying to buy something, you know, pressure to act quickly is going to be a big flag. That's number one. Yeah, So if somebody needs something immediately, then you should immediately pause. What I I'll tell you, And I'm so freaked out by a lot of this stuff. What I do now is I just delete stuff like I go one today. Well yeah, well but I know, but I'm altioly, you know. But if they're trying to rent a plate. I know it. You've got to be careful, right, because what happens is is, you know they put one letter off like in any email, Yeah, yep, Like we got one that said wells Fargo it was we lsbargo dot com, right right, They lift out one L and add the logo yep. So the second thing is is that there's not a lot of paperwork. When you're doing anything with real estate, there should be a lot of paperwork. It should be thorough. So if somebody that you are working with is not giving that to you, then I think that that is a big red flag and also too good to be true. Right If the rental units usually rents for two thousand, it's lifted for twelve hundred, that should be a flag that something might not be right here. Yeah, and you guys all know everything's now no cash, no checks or anything. It's all heading to wires and and so the wire frauds scams are really really aisle or Like I was just meeting with one of the big people at First American Tyle the other day, and this is one of their biggest problems is the wire fraud. Yeah, so that's the first one. We're going to be talking about. So the wire fraud scam is a big deal. It's basically when you're told you need to wire money, whether that's for rent, or whether that's to purchase a home or for anything else. You know, these scammers are getting really, really creative, and like Ken said, you know, they might even have one letter off in their email trying to get you to wire them money, and they're really convincing. Like I almost sell for a wirefraud scam on my first deal. You know, I was ready to close. The funds were going to be due. They were due like that next day, and somebody that had one letter off and the email from the the mortgage company I was working with, that hey, we you know, we messed up. We need you to send the money over today. Actually is the wire information. And it was from my mortgage rep. They knew my exact balance that I owed, they knew the date that it was due. The only reason I didn't fall for it, you know, being a brand news my first home I was buying, I had no idea was because I actually didn't know. I never wired money before. So I called Tyler, my mortgage guy, like, hey, how do I wire this fifty grand, Like, you know, you send me that email and I don't know how to wire it. He's like, wait, I didn't send you an email to wire money, but somebody had hacked into their database got all the information. So to me it looked totally legit because they, like I said, they knew how much I needed to close. I didn't even think like they made the signature of the same. I mean, it didn't even occur to me that this was a scam. Well, and you guys may or may not know, there was four hundred and forty six million dollars and it losses just in the real estate industry report last year. That is a lot of money. And what's going to happen is you're not going to hear about it. This is not going to hit the mainstream press, but it makes a tremendous amount of sets. People don't need to break in your house, hitting more to steal from you, right absolutely, you know they're going to do all this stuff, so you got to be very, very very careful. One of my very good friends started a company called LifeLock, and I'll never forget. He's like, you know, like, especially around Christmas time, they bring these temporary workers in to kind of help at the retail and they say, hey, give me your social and get ten percent off on this one specific purchase. And so you're handing your social Security number over to these people. There's a whole industry trying to scrape identity and and this, you know, and they need all that stuff in order to make the wires work, right, Yeah, they need they need. All they need you to do is wire them money. Actually, they just need to convince you to wire them money. They don't need your social or anything to do that. And that's you wiring them the physical money. So the way to prevent this is you want to make sure you speak to your mortgage broker. You know, if you start to get a weird email or an email that seems you know, they want you to send money, just call your mortgage broker. Make sure it was them to send the email. Make sure that these are you know, you have a sheet with the wire information on it. Typically you know that's all in your closing paperwork. But you never ever because once you wire money, they cannot get it back. Like there's nothing anybody can do. Your money is gone. Yeah, and as you guys, some of you might be scaling your business. So I have this exact problem with my whole company. You think about it, We got three hundred people, so not everyone has their hand on the ability to wire. But there's a lot of people inside of my accounting department that dude. Because as you grow, you start to delegate different kinds of things. So you might want to take a look at your systems because we're getting these kinds of things coming in at all departments at all times. You know, they can come in from vendors that it doesn't always have to be a brown real estate closing, so it can be We've had them from from people pretending like there were contractors that are old money. There's all kinds of ways. But these these wire uh, these wire fraud scams are a big deal and and uh it's it's a it's going to continue to grow absolutely, and so you know, I think it's just important. It's never going to be an emergency for you to wire money unless you miss something and you really do have money, you know, do it closed. But even then you're going to be in contact your your Mortgageburger's not going to send an email, they're going to call you if yeah, an emergency. And then mortgage companies don't like to talk about this because it looks bad for them. So they've never warn you like watch out for you know, fishing, or watch out for this or that, or don't wire any money because it doesn't look good for them to admit that maybe that's happened to them before. Right. A bank is a bank is not going to come out and be public about this, right right, As you know from working market the bank. Yep. One thing I know from working in a bank is bank get rabbed all the time and it does not make the news because they do. Not For me, I don't don't want people to know, we're going out a little round with a card. But the deal actually was worked at a bank that got robbed. Yeah, our bank got robbed, and we were in a territory of like, you know, fifteen banks, and they would get robbed all the time, right, like every few months, the bank would get robbed. That doesn't mean they came in with guns and whatever, but the bank and they never wanted to the police to know. They didn't want to make it public. They don't want people to not want to come to the bank. So just keep that in mind. Next, if you're a bank, the last thing you're in the city is that I lost as much money back of customers money. So yeah, this stuff is all kind of below the surface guy, So we're just you know, and please go online and look for otherwise. But the number one thing is have a personal relationship with whoever it is you have at the bank and make sure you call and verify. Absolutely, that's the biggest thing. So the second scam that's going around a lot right now is the short term rental scam. Yeah, they were big one are big ones, juge right now. Yeah, four hundred million in losses just last year. So they're easy to con people because when you're doing a short term rental, usually you're on vacation, you've never been there, you don't know where the home is or who owns it. And a lot of times, you know, these people are on these sites like the irbo Airbnb, but then they ask you to go off the site to do the payment. By the way, guys, twelve thousand people last year, right fell victim to this. Yep, this is a big deal. Yeah, so we't you explain how it works? Well, basically, you know, you know, they can use any platform. They can use Facebook, they can use Airbnb, you know, the RBO. And we've all seen this, right, Like when you're on Airbnb. Sometimes the host says, hey, if you want to avoid the Airbnb fees, we can take this off Airbnb. And you know, a couple of things can happen. One, sometimes they don't even own the home. There's no a lot of times, yeah, there's no home there. I don't even be a home. All they need is an address. So let's say you guys have a place that you're listing online. They can easily take that exact same thing, look for customers and try to get right. Gosh, it's exactly what And they lifted at a really good price, like we were saying before, because obviously, if you're a gamber with no real home to rent, you don't really care how much you're renting it for, right. You don't want to get people right. You know, you've also seen it where they cancel on people when they're there. So it's like they hit there is the home, and they do own it, but then last minute they cancel it. You know, So that and they don't give your money back because you're not on those platforms anymore. And then the last thing that they do. And actually we sort of fell victim to this one time as well. It's when we went to California. And so basically the house isn't necessarily what it's marketed to be, right, There's some issues with sit there's some leaking. By the way, this is a thirty thousand dollars a month house. Yeah, thirty month. Ouch it We're like, oh, but the lady wanted to go off Airbnb, and we we did with the leaf, but you know, it was leaking. There was mold, there was like water coming through this ceiling in one of the rooms. I mean, we stuck it out for a month. It would ride on the beach. But but if you know, if it would have been an Airbnb, we probably would have said, hey, this isn't really what we do. I know. W yeah, I know a lot of you guys are trying to save money, but I would suggest you stay on Airbnb and vrbo. You know, there's there's a reason those are set up. Protects the consumer, right, it protects both parties. But when you go offline, things start to get a little sketchy. Be very very co right, and and and also, you know, just make sure this happens to a lot of like traveling nurses in the midterm rental space as well. You know, just make sure that it's legit and then the people own it. I think to prevent it, you want to go through those sites like Airbnb and b RBO. I know, for us now we always go through the sites and then if we're going to rerunt the next year, and you know we've gotten to know the landlords, sometimes we'll go off of there and have a leaf yep. But you know that first time I need to go through. Yeah, this is a big one. This is only going to keep going up, right. It actually happens, not just for a short term either, you know. I mean it's funny. I was looking for a classic car and the I looked, I was like, this seems kind of weird, and I cut and pasted it and it came up on an actual auto dealer, like a classic car auto dealer back in the Midwest, and somebody else was in there like, oh, just give me a thousand dollars deposit and I'll hold the car, and they so this can happen with anything, and I won't actually take it. The other way too, because Eli said that, you know, he has a lot of people that ask on Airbnb to go off of airbnah and he you know, declines. And I do want to bring that up because you know, like we are running a place right now, we're going to run it again next year. We decided to go off Airbnb, and you know, the people that own this property gave us a lease that's like a sheet of paper. Okay, you know what I mean. So if you are a host and you're going to take it off airbe and you want to make sure you have a thorough lease as well to protect yourself the other way. Yeah, the reason why we're doing it is because we like this place. It's perfect and for our dogs and our kids and all that kind of stuff. And so we now are a relationship with the owner and gotten to meet them and so we're just doing it right. And you have to remember it all least protects you. So you know, for us, this is a great lease, but there's a lot of caveats in it. Obviously we're not going to exploit, but it's not a great leads for them. Yeah, Limitless is coming up. I'm so excited. Yeah, it's August twenty ninth, thirtieth and thirty first at the Gaylord in Dallas, Texas at Limitlessexpo dot com. It is going to be a great, great event. I cannot wait. It's going to be the end of August twenty ninth, thirty thirty first at the Gaylord Palms in Dallas, Texas. It's sold out the last two years. We expect thousands of people. As you guys know, this is an event that you do not want to miss. We have over fifty speakers, we have over eighty booths and presenters and sponsors, and this is an event if you guys are uncertain about what the future of the economy is, this is something that you're definitely not going to want to miss. And what's that link? One more time www dot limitless Expo dot com. Use code no limit that's n O L I M I T S to get ten percent off any ticket that's no limit. See you all there. So the third one I really want to dig into because these are their rental scams, and I think that this is the biggest thing that's going on right now, and I think that the tenants are dealing with this because they're trying to find a place to live long term. And I think that landlords are dealing with this because tenants are getting scammed so much that they're very scared to send any money or do anything, you know, for anything. Right. So basically, you know this is going to happen obviously when you rent something sight unseen from a smaller landlord. But it can also happen if you're there and they tore a place that maybe isn't theirs, right, you know, and they say, this is a wonderful condo, you're gonna love this, and you're in it, and then they don't actually own it. You know, it's stuff like it might be their boss's place, it might be a friend's place. It might be a place that you know, they somehow have keys too, and so it gets very very dicey, and I feel bad for tenants because there's a lot of people that are losing money to bet. Oh guys, this happened to me, so I'll tell you what happened. I built a condo project in Vegas, and I kept the models and I read it them forever, and then I decided I'm just gonna sell these things off because they're small, little renolds in lat Vegas, and I'm just gonna peel these off because they're kind of pains in the bot. So I had a property manager for that, and then I decided to lease it. I'm sorry, I decided to sell them. Okay, So I went from obviously renting it to wanting to sell it. Well, now it's vag and you know, in good shape for somebody touring it. Well, what happened was somebody threw a renter there. Oh yeah, all it was being listed. So we went from a rental to a sale. And of course I live in Scottsdale, and my realtor he's like, somebody's rent to your place. I'm like, oh my gosh. So now we have a situation where they actually paid somebody else. And so you know, this is the real thing, especially when there's vacancy. And this is kind of the point. What happened was the realtor, of course, tourists the property. You know, people are out getting listings when they can't when there's somebody interested in that. They're not checking your place all the time while it's vacant. And so somebody that in that community saw that this thing had been vacant for you know, thirty days, sixty days, and they took advantage of that. So that's actually what happened. And then Tony called me and he's like, oh my gosh, there's somebody in your place. And so then we had to go out to this whole thing, you know whatever, you want to call that a squatter or something, but people are pissed they're in there. Sometimes they move stuff in. Somebody else took the money. So this can happen with the vacancy. So if you're out of state, you're not checking your place, you know, just be careful. Yeah, absolutely, And you know, so how do you prevent this? Right? Because you need a place to day. You're not going through a platform like Airbnb. You're going on Zillow or Facebook. And you know, this is a lot of money, right because a lot of times this is thousands of dollars to hold a place. But I think the first thing that you should look out for is if the price is too good to be true. Yeah, we sure like, like that's a pig. Yeah, if you guys are getting a huge deal, there's a reason be careful of that. And I would say that's pretty common because think about it. If you're a scammer. You're trying to scam as many people as you can. If you lit your place in market, you're not going to get you know, ten applications that want to rent this place, right, so the place have to be pretty under market. So I would say that would be a huge red black. If it's too good to be true, then it literally is too good to be true, exactly right. And the second thing is is like that rushing right that rushing to close, that rushing toody. It's interested you need to get your money in right away. Yeah, any kind of that, just stay away from. Yes, that's not the state of the rental market right now, by the way, it's not. It has been, but it's not right now, not right now, right now, there's not a bunch of people beating down the door to rent unit. Yes, yeah, so that's if if, if, if it is the case, then just say I'm sorry. You know you need to take the necessary steps. Could you could be wired or sending your money to somebody that doesn't even own the place? Yep. And I think another one is tennant screening, right, like you know ied the only lord you want to screen tenants as a rental scammer. I don't think you care what their credit score and good background its, right, So if they're not doing a credit and background check on you, I think that that can be a flag as well for sure. Yeah, yeah, any they're just trying to get cash up front. The system should be this should always be this. They should be getting an application from you, running a criminal credit background check. And then of course you're getting a lease and there's a closet and you know, and then you actually are physically seeing the place. You should actually make sure that you're physically walking these places. H And you can actually pull title if you want. You could actually go see who owns something online, but it might be under an LPHI would be but yeah, it's okay. Yeah, even if it's under an LLC, that's okay. Then you can go check on the LLC. So most of you guys are in the real estate business, you realize that a lot of these places are owned by LLCs. You should not owe a lot of stuff in your own name. You should own it in some kind of an entity for asset protection purposes. But there is a way to see who owns you know, who the owners are, the members or the managing members inside of those LLCs. So just take that little bit of extra step. Yep. And also with the least, the lease should be pretty thorough. It shouldn't be a one sheet, right, and so that would be a flag for me if you know, somebody was like, yeah, just sign this, send the money, and we're good to go. Right. Yeah, Well we got the lease and hi, I go, let me see the lease as a one pager. Yeah, and I read it. I go, okay, this is good. This protects us. I mean to be honest, it can go either way. Like the more sophisken landlords are going to have very complex leashes because they've been through a lot. The ones that don't have as much experience, they're going to have the one pagers. Now they're gray, they're open, not everything's in there. But that can actually be good for both sides, right, to be honest, Yeah, the more, the tighter, the least, the more language, the harder it is, you know, to to to have. Well, I guess the things are it is gray. Well I can see how this could happen a lot too, because you know, like I just had a couple move in from Seattle last year. They had never been Arizona. They needed a place they we did a virtual walkthrough on faith time and they rented it and everything was fine. But you know, if I was a scammer, they would have been an easy people to scam. And I do think if you're renting from, if you're running in state, you need to physically go see the property, meet the person that's showing it to you. Do you have a weird feeling about them? Do they seem you know, on the up and up? Right? If you're running from out of state, this is the time to use a realtor. I believe if you're gonna if you're not running yeah, right, if you're not running from like a big apartment complex, because you know, you'd need an advocate for you to go down look at the unit, spot anything, make sure it's in a good area, and make sure that people are a scammer, right, because if you're coming from out of state, that's the easiest way to scam you. And it happens a lot, Like I thought a lot in my other company about traveling nurses. They get scammed a lot because they're coming to an area they need to stay for three months. They don't want to you know, most of the time that's not on AIRBNBA or view or bo and then they get there and there's nothing there for them to rune. And so I think that those situations, you know, you need a real or you need an advocate. Here's the thing. Do you just know that if you're the one try to lease something, then it's paid for by the person that's actually listing the place. So you know this is this is going to be the landlord's expense. It's going to be the seller's expense. So youse somebody local in the area. If you try to do something from out a state, out of the country, make sure you have somebody local, some some advocate, doesn't matter, right, right. You just need to make sure that you're not just flying blind. Yeah, I mean you're not just like sending money through just any old way, right, Like a tech is a good way because at least it's got to be made out to a certain company or a certain person, you know, versus just sending with thell or VENMO. That's not a good point. So on the lease as an example, so you can pull title on any place and so you know, and it'll have let's say the LLC name make sure that the check is in that LLC name, yeah, right, because everything should That's what the bank account should be in. It should not be in somebody's individual name. Right. That's a really important point. If you're if you just send it to John Smith at it's it's even John Smith real Estate LLC. It needs to be in the name of John Smith's Real Estate LLC. That's what the check should be written out to because that is the legal tie a legal owner on time. Absolutely. So the fourth scham I want to get into. It's more for homeowners, but it's those home inspection scams when you go to buy something or sell something, right, and a lot of times, you know, anybody can pretend to be a home inspector. It's very easy to get a you know, one hundred dollars website from Wix and just throw it up there and you're going to pay them and they're going to tell you there's no real issues with the house. You know. I know, you guys need to be careful. So one of the obviously, if if if you're the listing age, you're going to want to use your Houpe inspection person because they're not going to want to kill your deal, you're going to want an independent. You should always have an independent. So if you're being represented by an agent, let's say, then you're going to want to make sure that you go with that person because you want there to be a little bit of conflict. I mean, not not real conflict, but you just don't want, you know, everything just to slip right through. The listing agent is supposed to be trying to sell the place. They're the one getting paid for by the seller, not necessarily by you. And I know we've got dual agency and a bunch of other things that kind of that, and you know they're supposed to be independent and all that. But at the end of the day, if if a homeowner or a home especially comes in and there's all kinds of problems, all of a sudden, the buyers now negotiating with the seller, and so you just want to make sure it's independent. Yeah, and you want, like he said, you want that you like call it resistance, right, you don't want them to be okay with the deal going. Well, you know, Ken and I are in the process of getting a home and you know, our inspectors kind of upset the seller. But that probably wouldn't have happened if it would have been his inspectors. Well that happened. So you know, we're we're exactly what the listing agent said, Oh you can use our home inspector. We we're like, no, no, no, we'll use our own. And then of course they came and the seller was freaking out and the listening angel was freaking out, and they had very specific things that were flushed out that we were we asked them to do. And so that's the thing there. It goes from being biased to unbiased, that's all. Yeah, absolutely, And it comes down to how much they're charging to write. If you go with a really cheap company, that is more likely to be a scam or they're more likely to not do a good job. You know, we always say don't skimp on the home inspection, and certainly don't hire the cheapest company. That is not where you want to be saving money. Yeah, yeah, you want to, and you know you wanted to be super thorough right, and that's part of the thing. You wanted to go through all the systems on the roof, the plumbing, the electrical, all that kind of stuff. You want somebody to understands all that and the home inspection business is kind of sketchy. Yeah, in some cases, Yeah, it can be. You can, especially if you're just cranking them out, like on some of these production homes. They're literally like a report. They just flip the address, change the address out, and you know, teen kaching kachin kaching. You want somebody who really understands from a trade standpoint, all these different aspects and goes out and takes photos and so so make sure then that the home inspection is incredibly thorough. So you can easily prevent yourself from falling for scams by doing good due diligence, not trying to find the cheapest price, and make sure you have the right paperwork and thoroughly look over everything. Yeah, so as exactly people on the one that we're going through, and this happened before you know, we'll we'll get the report could be twenty thirty, forty and fifty pages and super detailed with photos and everything, so it's extremely thorough. And then from there you can kind of decide, you know, is it something I want to push back on or something I don't care about. So before we happ into our question, let's talk about limitless limitless is coming up. Yeah, baby, So I'm going to say something that you guys, this is going to freak you guys out. I had a call last week with RFK, RFK himself RFK, and it sure looks like he's coming. Yep. So you're the first to know. We haven't announced it, and you know we we we were working at this for months, so you could have as it. He's pretty busy and uh, it was cool. I had an incredible one hour call with him and he's excited. He's coming to Limitless at the end of August. That's not the only reason you would want to come. But we have fifty speakers, two thousand people. Uh, we've we're cranking it. I know we've sold out the last two years and it's very, very, very exciting. This is one of This is the one, the one event I do each year. This is not a new be type conference. This is a conference with a lot of people that are starting businesses, have multiple businesses, exiting businesses. It's not a real estate conference either. It's we're gonna we got some really good people talking about AI and how to implement AI. We've got people talking about gold, silver, oil, gas, timber, water, all these different things that you know are also good investments. So all of that, so we hope to see you guys there. And Jerry, if you put that up again, we got a code I think for limitless ten ten. Yeah, just type in ken ten you get a discount and we hope to see you guys there. So let's hop into our premium questions. I'm going to start with the first one from Danaka. She's asking, will it decrease in rates in September lead to an increase in real estate prices even if it's just a small quarter point decrease. Yeah, I just don't see it personally, you know, think their prices will go up? Well, they're already going up. Yeah, like you know, it's a supply problem is and it's possible, I suppose, but a quarter point is not that significant because what you really have to look at is quickly they went up. But it's I guess it's possible, but usually lower rates create bubbles, but a quarter point is not that significant based on you know, how far they went up. So it could provide some relief in some areas, but I don't think so it's not going to be enough for people to jump out and refinance. It's not going to be uh, it'll help a little bit. But the price is I think we passed four fifty on the average price of home. Yeah, I think they're still going up generally, and commercial role states in trouble still and a quarter point is helpful, I suppose, but but but not meaningful. But I you know, but I think with a quarter point, I have a little different opinion because I think with a quarter point, you know, people solve to that monthly payment. So I do think that prices of real estate could go up if they lower rates. Well yeah, I mean, yeah, what it's big fifty or seventy five dollars problem. Yeah, but I still think that they something I suppose yeah. Yeah. And I also think too that you know, more people will hop on that bandwagon. I can REFI out of this if I buy now, you know, because they will think possible and I rates will keep going down. Here's what I would think. I think people are gonna they're gonna take note and they're going to see where the FED goes for the next one. And you know, so are you going to see this odd? A lot of people go out and by I don't think so you know, we've got a lot. You know, the last half of the shared a wild election, and obviously this will just be a couple of months before and who knows what's gonna go on with with regard to all that, with Biden stepping down and come on stepping up, and you know, it's just gonna be a wild few months. So it is. I know that was living announcement yesterday. Come on us. So so Jeremy that thing that the numbers make more sense to rent than buy in my area? Should I continue to rent i can afford to buy? I am certain. Yeah, it's a good question. So, uh, this has a lot to do with you know what, So if it's your primary home, I'm a huge believer that you should own a hole and you instead of paying a lad, uh, you should be paying yourself and you're just tipping away at your mortgage payment. So over a long period of time, the one thing you got to consider is inflation. So it sure looks to me like even though the Fed's now celebrating there's somewhere between two and three percent inflation. Even at two and three percent inflation, you're still gonna have inflation. And so you know, if you just hold this thing for ten years, the chances of it being I guess inflated by twenty to thirty to forty percent is high based on inflation. And at the same time, if you're paying down your mortgage, you're gonna have that. So you're gonna have your mortgage being paid down, and you're gonna have the economy is gonna be inflating. So this is a hard assets strategy. Time. You want to be in hard assets, whatever those might be, and that's specifically what we're gonna be talking a lot about a limitless is hard assets typically move with inflation, so that's what that's where you want to be. You do not want to be in cash because if you have one hundred grant in the bank and you have a hundred grant in the bank in five years, it's the same hundred grant, but it buys you less. And that's actually the big issue. The big issue is prices are going out over time, not everything. Of course, there are some things that are deflationary, but most are inflationary. So this is a that's a it's a really good question, really astute question, But I'm a huge believer that everyone should own real estate. And by the way, it doesn't have to be your primary residents. You can buy one and have a tenant panoff just you want to be in the game. In my opinion, yep, so twot that thing. I'm in the market and has and I've had great appreciation over the last five years, which has created much equity in my properties. Those same properties all got refinanced to rates below four percent. I have all this equity, but I'm not sure how to access it without losing my low rate. They all have great cash flow. Do I sell in ten thirty one or is there a better strategy? Yeah? What requestion? So I'm in this situation and most people are in this exact same situation. I believe that if you've got your rates at under four or four, then that debt is now an asset, like there's no one that can get that. And and you know, we might not see those rates for a long time if maybe you know, I mean, this is the first time I've seen them that long, just to be honest, and and and in my when I first started coming into the business, we were at seventy eight percent. Then it went all the way down to six or seven or five or like soweet and then it went even lower. So what you guys have now just seen is something that I've never seen. And so it's possible that you would be sitting back on those, uh, and they're cash flowing, and I know you got all this equity at some point, you know, maybe you can do a lot of credit against it. Uh. You know, you could put a second against it, perhaps without getting rid of the first. But I would definitely not want to refinance out of those because that's precisely what the lender wants you to do, because they're probably losing money all though, you know. And so if you have that kind of fixed strate debt, man, that's gold, li's it. Something's cash flowing like that, it's a risk of ten thirty one to get into something else that you know might not have that yeah. Yeah, and so so I'm doing at ten thirty one right now. But it's at a piece of land that I have, and you know, it's maybe it's a five million dollar piece of land. So I'm going to take that. There's no cash flow on it, so it's something I bought years ago. I'm going to roll that into something else that cash flows. That's different if I had three percent dead on it and it was cash flowing, I probably wouldn't do it. Yep. Absolutely So thanks you guys for checking us out. We'll see you next week. See you, guys, cheers. Thank you for listening to this episode of The Real Estate Strategy Podcast. If you liked what you heard, please give us a five star review on iTunes and let us know what you thought of today's episode. Thank you, and we'll see you next week.