From Aerospace to Real Estate Investing: Jason Hsieh’s Wealth-Building Journey | Movers and Shakers Podcast

[00:00:00] Hey Jake, it's not often that we get a sponsor that transforms their industry. You're telling me. After years of fine print contracts and getting ripped off by overpriced wireless providers, if we've learned anything, it's that there's always a catch. So when I heard that all Mint Mobile wireless plans are 15 bucks a month when you purchase a three-month plan, I thought, dude, what's the catch? But after talking to them, it all made sense. There isn't one.

[00:00:28] Mint Mobile's secret sauce is that they sell wireless services online. They don't have retail stores or salespeople. Instead, they deliver premium phone plans directly to you. And Gino, that's it right there. Their costs are less. Therefore, they're able to provide the same great service at a much lower price. I was shocked, but you're basically getting the same value for much less.

[00:00:54] Say bye-bye to your overpriced wireless plans, jaw-dropping monthly bills and unexpected overages. Mint Mobile is here to rescue you with premium wireless plans starting at 15 bucks a month. All plans come with high-speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. Use your own phone with any Mint Mobile plan and bring your phone number along with all your existing contacts.

[00:01:22] Ditch overpriced wireless with Mint Mobile and get three months of premium wireless services for 15 bucks a month. To get this new customer offer and your new three-month unlimited wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month, go to mintmobile.com slash jake. That's mintmobile.com slash jake. Cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com slash jake.

[00:01:51] $45 upfront payment required, equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first three-month plan only. Speeds slower above 40 gigabytes on unlimited plan. Additional taxes, fees and restrictions apply. See Mint Mobile for details. Richtig spannend. Richtig vielfältig. Das ist deine Karriere bei Kaufland. Ob Trainee-Programm, Direkteinstieg, Studentenjob oder Praktikum.

[00:02:18] Finde bei uns den Einstieg, der zu dir passt. Profitiere von einer attraktiven Vergütung, spannenden Aufgaben und individuellen Entwicklungsmöglichkeiten. Werde jetzt Teil unseres Teams. Bewirb dich jetzt unter kaufland.de slash studenten. Kaufland. Hier bin ich richtig.

[00:02:43] Hello and welcome to the Movers & Shakers podcast. My name is Gino Barbera, one of the co-founders of Jake & Gino. And on this episode, we have Jason Shea. He's an aerospace engineer by trade. He started paving his real estate career after spending a decade working on rockets and electric aircraft. He's a lot smarter than I am. Jason started house hacking unintentionally and later started investing out of state in 2020. Since then, he has partnered up with experienced operators based in Cincinnati with focus in acquisition and asset management.

[00:03:12] His goal is to continue growing his equity and cash flow by providing value to both residents and capital partners. Welcome to the show, Jason. Thank you, Gino. Thanks for having me. I love the story. You're in startups. You don't sort of want to go into these big bureaucratic, you know, types of companies. But at the same time, you know it's not sustainable. It's like Gino in the kitchen. Gino in the kitchen at 60 years old really can't move around anymore.

[00:03:40] He can't be at his feet for 12 hours a day. Jason, is that what attracted you to multifamily and said, I need to find another way to make money for the family? Yeah, I think there are many different ways to make money. And I think real estate and multifamily are more predictable and more stable than a lot of asset classes out there. Sure, you can probably make more crypto, but there's a lot more volatility that goes with it. So I just feel like I prefer a nicer, steady and more predictable type of asset class.

[00:04:09] So when you're looking at it and you're thinking multifamily, I want you to be honest with me. When you said that to your wife and to your family members, what was the reaction? So my wife's reaction at the time was, what are you going to do with all the cash flow and money? Like, what are you going to do with this? My response was, at the time, I didn't have a clear picture of what I wanted to do. But I told her I would rather like sit by a lake and think about it.

[00:04:35] And so like responding to emails and messages about my work that just never ending. So that was my response to her. And what about your family? I mean, mom, dad, cousins, co-workers, did they think you were nuts or was like, oh, I can see Jason doing that? They're actually not surprised because I think, believe it or not, I think like real estate investing is actually in the back of a lot of people's mind. But they never really got like the time to investigate or even attempted.

[00:05:03] So I think my circle, like my immediate circle is all really supportive of the idea. And they're really curious about what I'm doing and just like being that, providing that mental support for me. Jason, one day at the restaurant, I was in the kitchen washing dishes and I was pissed. Dishwasher didn't show up again. My brother comes back from a barbecue, jumping around, having fun. And that was the moment that I said, F this, I've got to do something different and not even do something different.

[00:05:32] I've got to commit. When was that moment? Or did you have a moment in your journey, in your career when you said, you know what? I've been thinking about it like a lot of your friends. I've been thinking about it, but you know what? I need to join Jake and Gino or I need to take the next step in this journey. Was there one moment in your journey? Yeah, I think so. I started like doing single family investing like during COVID and then later realized to get to our cash flow target, we really need something like 50 to 100 doors at like 300 bucks a month.

[00:06:03] And that means going into multifamily, right? And I started looking up just all the free resources on YouTube, listening to podcasts, trying to understand how multifamily works and how to operate it. And then I think after months of research, I kind of have a high level understanding of how this is done. But like to get into the nuts and bolts of how this is actually achieved, I felt like I needed to talk to someone who is in a business, right?

[00:06:32] Like you can always look at a business from the outside and you think you know everything, but the real secret sauce is in the like actually like hands on and doing the work. So that's when I said, okay, let's start looking up who else is out there offering the service. And I think Jake and Gino came across and I really like what you guys preach, especially on the managed right process. That is a part I don't think a lot of people talk about. So that's one thing I really liked about Jake and Gino.

[00:07:01] So Jason, what you're saying politely is you can either learn on the street or you can learn in the classroom. Learning on the street, aka learning on YouTube or aka learning by yourself is going to be a lot more expensive. It's going to take a lot longer. You know, why do I know that? Because that's how I started. I ended up going into mentorships as well. You know, this may be a tough question to answer, but when I look at multifamily, it really, it transcends into other businesses. You know, restaurants are similar to multifamily in certain areas.

[00:07:29] Have you been able to take any of the skills that you've learned in your business career and transition them over into multifamily? When you say business career, does that involve my regular W-2? Yeah, yeah. That's what I would say. Like anything like your project management, asset management, any kind of business skills, has that been able to translate over into multifamily? Because I want the listeners to really think about this because they think that they don't have any skill when they get into multifamily.

[00:07:55] And that's not true because for me in the restaurant business, it's so similar to multifamily because there's customer service in the restaurant industry. And in multifamily, the managerite, you're serving residents. You're serving their homes. They're coming into the office. There's a lot of different systems and processes that are similar and core values, mission statements. You need that in your restaurant, and you also need that in multifamily. So were you able to pull anything from your W-2 and transition it over into multifamily? Yeah, I think so.

[00:08:25] I think I wore many different hats in my W-2. Some of it was project management. Some of it was just being pure analytical. On the project management side, I think when you take on a project, it's going to be as many, many, many steps, right? And I see that as – I see a parallel in the acquisition phase. I'm just using that as an example. During the acquisition phase, you are really – like once you sign a PSA, your clock starts.

[00:08:54] You have a certain number of days that you must close. So you really have to organize all the tasks in sequential order and figure out the dependencies and really put dates and assignees so people can be held accountable to these deliverables. And ultimately, just put them in some type of project management tracker like Asana or Monday.com or Smartsheet. That way you know exactly where you are in the acquisition process and the deliverables are still missing.

[00:09:23] So that's on the project management side. The same thought can be applied towards the takeover, like post-takeover, like the list of cap packs you need to track, when they're going to be completed, who's doing what, et cetera. And I think on the analytical side, back at SpaceX, I used to do a lot of modeling. And modeling in the end is just a prediction, right? So it's really garbage in, garbage out. If you put crappy assumptions into the model, you're going to get crappy results.

[00:09:52] The same goes for underwriting. Like if you're going with really aggressive assumptions, your returns are going to look amazing. But are those returns real? Are they achievable? And those are the questions that I constantly ask myself and just gut check with my partners. I want to thank you for answering that because there may be a lot of listeners listening to this saying, I can't get into multifamily. I don't have anything to bring to the table. This is something foreign to me. But I think when you look at multifamily from the lens of the business side,

[00:10:20] that it is a scalable business, that you certainly need to learn certain processes. If I'm listening to this, Jason, and I want to get into multifamily, I may have a couple of single family homes. I may have maybe a couple of duplexes or an RV park, or I may have no real estate. What are some of the things that I need to do to get into multifamily and to become successful in this business? So I think this is one of my lessons about getting into multifamily, commercial real estate in general, is just network with people.

[00:10:49] That is one thing I didn't do enough when I just went ahead and made some LPE investing. So talk to people who are in the business. If you don't know people who are in real estate, just go to a real estate meetup. Chances are someone would know someone who operates multifamily. So definitely networking is probably the top priority for anyone new who wants to get into real estate or just commercial real estate in general.

[00:11:17] And how did you select your market? Because I'm going to ask you about buy right, manage right, finance right. But you're someone living in California, very hard to find deals that cash flow in California. It's a different market. If you want to have an equity play and get capital appreciation, it's a great place to do that. But how were you able to narrow down where you wanted to invest? Hey, Jake, it's not often that we get a sponsor that transforms their industry. You're telling me.

[00:11:43] After years of fine print contracts and getting ripped off by overpriced wireless providers, if we've learned anything, it's that there's always a catch. So when I heard that all Mint Mobile wireless plans are 15 bucks a month when you purchase a three-month plan, I thought, dude, what's the catch? But after talking to them, it all made sense. There isn't one. Mint Mobile's secret sauce is that they sell wireless services online. They don't have retail stores or salespeople.

[00:12:12] Instead, they deliver premium phone plans directly to you. And Gino, that's it right there. Their costs are less. Therefore, they're able to provide the same great service at a much lower price. I was shocked, but you're basically getting the same value for much less. Say bye-bye to your overpriced wireless plans, jaw-dropping monthly bills, and unexpected overages.

[00:12:38] Mint Mobile is here to rescue you with premium wireless plans starting at 15 bucks a month. All plans come with high-speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. Use your own phone with any Mint Mobile plan and bring your phone number along with all your existing contacts. Ditch overpriced wireless with Mint Mobile and get three months of premium wireless services for 15 bucks a month.

[00:13:07] To get this new customer offer and your new three-month unlimited wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month, go to mintmobile.com slash Jake. That's mintmobile.com slash Jake. Cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com slash Jake. $45 upfront payment required, equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first three-month plan only.

[00:13:36] Speeds slower above 40 gigabytes on unlimited plan. Additional taxes, fees, and restrictions apply. See Mint Mobile for details. Richtig spannend, richtig vielfältig. Das ist deine Karriere bei Kaufland. Ob Trainee-Programm, Direkteinstieg, Studentenjob oder Praktikum. Finde bei uns den Einstieg, der zu dir passt. Profitiere von einer attraktiven Vergütung, spannenden Aufgaben und individuellen Entwicklungsmöglichkeiten. Werde jetzt Teil unseres Teams.

[00:14:06] Bewirb dich jetzt unter kaufland.de slash studenten. Kaufland, hier bin ich richtig. Ja, so I look at one of the first thing is the population size. It has to be over one mil. Anything less than that, I think, is a bit too small for me. And then I look at population growth and job growth. They don't have to be like the top metros like Austin that just blowing up, knocking out of the park. But it has to be at least keeping up with the national averages.

[00:14:36] So that's job growth and population growth. And then just the local income level and the local rental rates. I need to make sure there is enough balance that people can still pay the rent. And that if you were to value add, if you were to add value to the property and push rents, you want to make sure people can still pay for that increased rent. And then another thing is the employment diversity.

[00:15:04] I don't want to see any overexposure to a single industry. So I think that speaks for itself. Just having a diversified employment base, it's going to start to feel better for the long run. So at the really high level, those are the things that I looked for. You just beautifully paved the way for the next question because that is really a component of the buy right. Let's go into buy right a little bit more. But let's also talk about manage right, finance right.

[00:15:31] And then possibly if you want to talk about raising capital as well, let's bundle all those together. So buy right. You've got jobs, employment. What type of assets are you looking for? What type of median income? What type of market? If you want to go into that a little bit more, that'd be great. Yeah. Generally speaking, I like to target the 1980s for newer. I will make exceptions for older assets like the 60s and 70s product, provided that they are in path of progress and no major deferred maintenance.

[00:15:58] And that will fully budget any repairs that need to go into it. So that's part of the buy right framework, right? You want to make sure you budget out the expenses, especially on older properties. So median income, I generally target 4x the local rental rates. I think the rule of thumb for PM companies to do 3x income over rent. That's pretty standard.

[00:16:25] But I wanted to see that the tenant base can have more financial stability just in case rents were to go up. Or if someone loses their job, they should have the end-plus savings. So those are the things that I look for. And as far as manage right, how are you implementing manage right and then the finance right component? Yeah.

[00:16:48] So manage right, I think for me, it's about tracking the critical performance metrics, the KPIs of the property, and really stay on top of it. Because the PM company that have my single family portfolio, they will send me this statement at the end of the month. And I'm like, okay, we're talking about things that are like 30, 40 days in the past. There's nothing I can do about it.

[00:17:14] But for commercial real estate management and operations, we can get the KPIs at different intervals, whether it's weekly, biweekly, depending on how critical you think that KPI is. And then you just look at the KPIs week over week and just make sure you stay on top of things. And more importantly, you're identifying trends. Say the property is suddenly having a lot of collection issues. Let's investigate and understand what's happening.

[00:17:43] If in the middle of the month, we are already hitting our budget for, let's just say, repair and maintenance, let's go see if there's anything systemic that we need to just spend the capital to address permanently. So those are the things that I look out for. Just try to stay ahead of trends and be able to respond proactively instead of being reactive. And finally, finance right? Finance right?

[00:18:08] I think financing, it really depends on where we are in the market cycle. The market cycle goes up and down. It comes and goes. I think where we are is we might head into a recession. We might not. Nobody knows. And it is safer to just place a long-term fixed rate debt. I'm personally not a fan of floating bridge. For the deals that we closed recently, we do use bank loan, but they're like 10-year term.

[00:18:38] So it's not going to come due anytime soon. It's fixed rate for three to four years. So we know we're protected. So long-term fixed rate to me is the more ideal type of financing going into the cycle. I love that. That's what we preach. We preach long-term fixed rate financing. Now, if you use bridge, you need to have experience. You need to be really quick. And you can't do it when rates are super low and then rates jump up.

[00:19:06] So now if you're getting bridge now, are rates going to go higher? I mean, they might. And the 10-year treasury has gone up, but you're not at 3%, possibly going to 6% or 7%, which is what ended up happening. Now, Jason, when you're doing these deals, have you had to raise capital for these deals yet? Have you looked at syndicating deals and raising capital? Can you give us some idea or some tips on that as well? Yeah, I have raised a small amount of capital. And I think for me personally, it's just being totally transparent with my investors

[00:19:34] because they're friends and family who are putting their ultimate trust in me to bring them a vetted deal. So I wanted to make sure that I disclose everything I know about the property. And one of my other rules is I got to see the property in person before I even take it to somebody else. And that's during the day and at night as well. Part of the diligence is to walk the property at night so you know exactly what you're getting into. So those are the rules that I set for myself.

[00:20:02] So yeah, be transparent, disclose everything, have skin in the game. I will also invest in a deal that I raised. So those are the fundamental rules I set for myself. And as you start scaling and getting other people other than friends and family, how does that look for you? How are you going to have those conversations? Because taking money from friends and family is easier, but it can also be more challenging because they know Jason, the technician who builds rockets.

[00:20:32] But now Jason, who's investing in multifamily, there could be a challenge there. But now I know one of the things you're saying is, and I agree with you, let everybody know what you're doing. That's so important. Are you starting to do that right now as well? Yeah, I think I started just letting people know what I'm up to in real estate and not just investing. I'm also a real estate agent locally, so I'm doing that as well.

[00:20:58] And also just continue constantly providing education and sharing what I know to whether it's on social media or just doing these casual lunch gathering conversations. Just letting people know what I'm doing, provide value. And then I think recently friends are starting to come to me for just real estate general questions. They're not necessarily looking to invest, which is fine. I'm just more than happy to share with them what I know about real estate and some of the mistakes I've made in the past three, four years.

[00:21:28] So go back to when you started Jake and Gino and fast forward to today. Those conversations, it doesn't happen overnight, does it? But you've given yourself some grace. You've given yourself some time. And over that time, you've been able to learn. You've made mistakes. You've pivoted. So talk about that long-termism. And it's not like it's 10 years. It's only been a couple of years. But the way you put yourself out, the way you go to a meetup and you feel a little bit uncomfortable, the way you start listening to podcasts and start taking other people's

[00:21:57] opinions and other viewpoints and not living in a so-called bubble and saying, this is the only way you can do it. Talk about that a little bit because I think most people say to themselves, well, I can't do it. Time goes by so quick. Before you know it, the year is over and it's another excuse saying, I don't have time to do this and it takes forever to do it. So speak to that a little bit for me, please. I would say a lot of that was really stepping out of my comfort zone because I'm very much an introvert.

[00:22:25] Going into settings with a lot of people, it was never my thing. So when I joined Drake and Gino and having to go out to these events and network with people, all of that was all natural for me. And I would honestly say it took me a while to really get out of my comfort zone, go into these real estate events, just say hi to people, figuring out what each other is doing and how we can help each other out. So that really took some time for me.

[00:22:51] And I think, to your point, these things don't happen overnight and you just really have to put in the effort, grind through it. You might say, oh, nobody is acknowledging what I'm posting on social media. Nobody seems to be excited about what I'm saying. But I think what I've observed over the past year and a half is people, especially your close friends that are taking mental notes, like they're observing you really.

[00:23:20] They're just really providing that silent support in the background or whether you notice it or not. But I think over time, people, your friends and family will definitely take notice and start to look up to you as a KOL, if you will. And that's when I think traction can really pick up. And so, yeah, that's what I would say about that.

[00:23:44] And I guess one more piece to that is, to me, this is a hard path as an entrepreneur. And if you don't want it badly enough, it's going to be really hard to just keep up with the effort, especially when you have to maintain a W-2 on top of all the other commitments. So you've got to want it bad enough. I'm going to push back on that for a second before I ask my next question, because you

[00:24:12] can say to yourself, it's really hard. Being an entrepreneur is really hard. But the flip side is being a W-2 worker or owning a small restaurant is really hard also. You can pick your heart. You can design your life. And there's not one more or less hard. I'm just saying like, you can choose. Because when I was working at the restaurant, I was working on the weekends. I was working on the holidays. I was missing out on a lot of stuff. So that was really hard.

[00:24:41] And I was making less money. I was making less impact. When I got into real estate, things changed. Was it harder? Probably. Was there more risk? Probably. But there's more reward. I'm saying so you can pick your poison. Go in there, you know, eyes open. And one thing I'd like to say also is, for those of you listening, Jason is an introvert. But ironically enough, he reached out to me to be on the podcast. And he reached out again two days later when I didn't respond back to him. So it's one of those things where we like to tell ourselves narratives and stories.

[00:25:11] Because if he was a true introvert, he wouldn't be on the show right now. So it's one of those things where just be careful of your beliefs. Because your beliefs are behavior driven. Because if you really think you're a true introvert, you're not going to get on and share your story. So what prompted you to say, hey, I want to jump on this podcast and I want to share my story? So I think one is one or two more people to know what I'm doing right now.

[00:25:38] And I think there are still people who are looking into real estate investing. And I think the more people I can help avoiding some of the mistakes that I've made in the past, I think that just makes me feel better in general. Just like helping those in my network, in my circle. Like I think that's just something I'm more than happy to do. Because throughout my journey in the last few years, there have been so many people who have unconditionally helped me.

[00:26:06] Like no strings attached whatsoever. Just like basically share with me whatever knowledge that they have, whether it's on their current projects, with their past mistakes. Like again, totally unconditionally. I think real estate in the end is a people business. You're working with people all the time. And I think I always want myself to just pass on these goodwill and knowledge to people.

[00:26:32] Hey Jake, it's not often that we get a sponsor that transforms their industry. You're telling me. After years of fine print contracts and getting ripped off by overpriced wireless providers, if we've learned anything, it's that there's always a catch. So when I heard that all Mint Mobile Wireless plans are 15 bucks a month, when you purchase a three-month plan, I thought, dude, what's the catch? But after talking to them, it all made sense. There isn't one.

[00:27:02] Mint Mobile's secret sauce is that they sell wireless services online. They don't have retail stores or salespeople. Instead, they deliver premium phone plans directly to you. And Gino, that's it right there. Their costs are less. Therefore, they're able to provide the same great service at a much lower price. I was shocked, but you're basically getting the same value for much less.

[00:27:27] Say bye-bye to your overpriced wireless plans, jaw-dropping monthly bills, and unexpected overages. Mint Mobile is here to rescue you with premium wireless plans starting at 15 bucks a month. All plans come with high-speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. Use your own phone with any Mint Mobile plan and bring your phone number along with all your existing contacts.

[00:27:56] Ditch overpriced wireless with Mint Mobile and get three months of premium wireless services for 15 bucks a month. To get this new customer offer and your new three-month unlimited wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month, go to mintmobile.com slash Jake. That's mintmobile.com slash Jake. Cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com slash Jake.

[00:28:24] $45 upfront payment required, equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first three-month plan only. Speeds slower above 40 gigabytes on unlimited plan. Additional taxes, fees and restrictions apply. See Mint Mobile for details. Richtig spannend, richtig vielfältig. Das ist deine Karriere bei Kaufland. Ob Trainee-Programm, Direkteinstieg, Studentenjob oder Praktikum. Finde bei uns den Einstieg, der zu dir passt.

[00:28:53] Profitiere von einer attraktiven Vergütung, spannenden Aufgaben und individuellen Entwicklungsmöglichkeiten. Werde jetzt Teil unseres Teams. Bewirb dich jetzt unter kaufland.de slash studenten. Kaufland, hier bin ich richtig. 甜蜙ck. I think also you have to me a responsibility to the people that you work with and the people in Silicon Valley and in people who are high-income earners but can't do it themselves.

[00:29:21] And they have money trapped in these alternative investments such as stocks and mutual funds that are underperforming, that are risky. And you want to put money in Bitcoin as of this recording, Bitcoin's at 93,000 going to a million and then everyone puts their money in there. To me, there's intrinsic risk in there. That's speculative. To what we're doing, we're buying a basic human need with great tax benefits with the future stream of revenue. There's something where you can map your mind around.

[00:29:48] And if you can have that ability to be able to offer that to people that can't do that themselves, that's something pretty cool, don't you think? Yeah. The way I talk to people about real estate is don't think of it as a single asset class that can take you to the moon. You can probably make money faster buying crypto, certainly. You can probably make money faster buying just a blended tech ETF stock, certainly. I see real estate as a way to diversify and also take off some of the tax burden.

[00:30:16] So again, it comes down to diversification and only actual piece of tangible asset. I love that. You want to share one of your most recent deals before we close it out? Why you bought it, what you like about it, and what the exit plan is for it? Yeah. So this deal was acquired in this April. So it's been a little over six months. The property is located in the east side of Cincinnati, 54 units, 1980.

[00:30:45] What we liked about the property was it's been heavily under-rented. The owner is an out-of-state owner, also in California, actually. Just didn't have the management system that he needed and wasn't doing a very good job pushing rents. I think the rents were somewhere between $700 to $800, maybe a few $900 between the one beds and two beds. So we recognized an opportunity that is under-rented. It's in the building that's in the path of progress in that part of Cincinnati.

[00:31:15] And it's definitely under-managed. So we saw the opportunity to bring our in-house management into the property and just really turn the property around. Our latest two-bedroom lease went for $1,250. So that's like a $400 trade-out. Our one-bedroom went for, I think, $1030. And that's an un-renovated bedroom. So that's a rent offset that we saw. So yeah, those were things that we were able to achieve.

[00:31:44] And on top of that, we fixed a lot of deferred maintenance, refreshed the exterior, make it look really nice. And I can barely recognize the property now. So we got a lot of good words from the resident and really loved what we were doing in only six months, honestly. So I think right now, so far, it's been a win-win situation. And I think going forward, I think we expect to continue to capture the rent upsides and just push the value of the property.

[00:32:14] How did you guys find the deal? I think this is with a local broker relationship that our partnership has. And that's what it is. It's going out there and networking. Jason's not doing it by himself. What does the next five years look like for Jason? Let's say Jason leaves, you leave your job, your W-2. Do you see yourself lying down, going to the beach? Or do you see yourself building your real estate portfolio? Or maybe a little bit of both.

[00:32:44] I think realistically, like, I can have to be honest with real estate cash flow these days. It's not going to have the same cash flow that it had back in 2016 to 2018. So I think I see myself just continuing to do these value add real estate deals to build up the equity base. Yes. When that base is large enough, I'll probably turn it into some, like, assets that require less overhead, maybe like a triple net lease.

[00:33:14] And then that's where I might, like, go to a beach and figure out what I want to do next. Or just, like, I've always had this vision of, like, acquiring a piece of land, turning into, like, a basketball training camp. And I can just have coaches do their lessons here. And I obviously get paid. And I can play whenever I want. I can host events. Did you used to play basketball? I still play. I still play every week. I try to play every week. So it's a part of me.

[00:33:44] Wow. And that's what it is. Real estate can be anything. If you can think it, you can dream it. So some people always say, well, triple net does not yield what value play. That's fine. Triple net is for just preserving capital and clipping a coupon with very little risk. Value add has a lot more risk, but there's a lot more reward. So that's where I think people have a misunderstanding of what real estate is. Just pick the right vehicle for the right journey. And it's very interesting.

[00:34:12] You may pick the vehicle of that basketball camp because you love it. It's your passion. You may not make as much money. Your IRR may only be 12 instead of 20. But what's the IRR in your life? If you can actually be part of something like that, you get joy from it. You're actually part of it. You're coaching and you're also playing. And then by the way, you own the camp as well. I mean, that's what real estate and I think that's what business to me is all about. Yep, exactly. That's like the perfect trifecta. I love that. Jason, where can people get a hold of you?

[00:34:42] Yeah, you can find me on LinkedIn or Facebook or email me at Jason at Formosa Equity. That's F-O-R-M-O-S-A and then letter equity. Jason at FormosaEquity.com. And what I like to say is I'm wrapping up the show. Jason really embodies a lot of the Jake and Gino community. You know, an immigrant who comes here from Taiwan.

[00:35:05] He's in eighth grade, barely speaks English, goes to college, gets a great W-2 job, living the dream. And then they say to themselves, there's got to be more, right? I love what I'm doing. It's fast paced. I'm making a good salary, but Uncle Sam is taking a lot of that. And I want to build wealth for the future. And they start in single families. And that works pretty well though. That does well. You're getting a nice $600, $700 check on one. But I'm like, that's not fast enough for me.

[00:35:35] Let me go into multifamily. And then going into multifamily, listening to some videos, watching some trainings, and then saying, I need to take a deeper dive. I need to see people who are actually doing it on a day-to-day basis. And then joining the Jake and Gino community. So for anybody out there looking to get into real estate, there are tons of communities out there. Just find one that fits your values. Find one that fits what you're trying to accomplish. And think of it as a long-term play. That's what ultimately real estate is about. You can get wealthy in the next three to five years.

[00:36:04] You don't have to take 10 years. But don't think you're going to get wealthy in the next six months. Spend the next six to 12 months educating yourself, networking, getting yourself ready for the next three to five years. Any final words, Jason? Yeah. Well, another big piece of the Jake and Gino community is the network. There's people operating in every state you can think of. Every state, every city you can think of. So it's just not a real estate-related question.

[00:36:29] I think there was one time I asked a question about infinite banking on Jake and Gino's Facebook page. And you and a few others chimed in about your experience. And I think this community is not just real estate only. It's really about, I think, entrepreneurship and just setting yourself and the family up for success, really. So, yes, definitely networking is a huge piece of it, for sure.

[00:36:58] Well, as we like to say, real people doing real deals. That's what it comes down to with the Jake and Gino community. Once again, Jason, thanks for being on the show. We will see you all on the next Movers and Shakers. Thanks, everyone. Thanks, Jason. Thank you very much. Take care. Take care.